Episode 1.8 Rising Signs & Anticapitalist Poetry with Adèle Barclay
September 1, 2017
Hannah (Host): [Music: "Mesh Shirt" by Mom Jeans] Hi, I'm Hannah McGregor and this is Secret Feminist Agenda. Welcome back, lights with my life. How's everyone doing? Are you drinking enough water? You should probably stop whatever you're doing right now and drink some water... Great job. Obviously, I've been delighted with every single guest on this show and today is not even close to being an exception, but before you can meet this delightful human, I want to tell you what my secret feminist agenda is this week. [Music: "Mesh Shirt" by Mom Jeans]
Hannah (Host): I want to talk without killing your darlings, which is to say, I guess I kind of want to talk about Joss Whedon? So, for those of you who didn't hear the news, Joss Whedon's ex-wife, Kai Cole, who he was married to for 16 years, recently published an essay at The Wrap essentially saying that Whedon had a history of cheating on her and that his feminism was, his claimed feminism was, essentially a sort of front he used to, I guess, lure women? I'm not actually interested, for the purposes of this conversation, in the details of what Whedon did. My policy is believe women and so I believe it. I don't know, I have fraught feelings about infidelity and monogamy and, um, what I want to think about a little bit today instead is what we do when we find out the artists or creators that we really loved and admired are maybe not the people we thought they were, and part of that conversation is what it means for an artist or a creator to be a feminist.
I can't say I was particularly surprised by the news about Whedon and in part that's because [laughter] it's very hard for a man to disappoint me, but it was also because I think we have blinders on if we look at Whedon's body of work and think that it's, you know, a shining beacon of feminism. I think what's important is that shows like Buffy and Firefly were, for many of us, really revolutionary in a period when we didn't get to see a lot of TV shows that had women kicking ass at the center of them. And as I've argued, as Marcelle and I have argued on Witch, Please a number of times, what really matters here is the creation itself and what the fan communities do with it.
But in the back of my head through this whole thing is actually a series of events that happened in Canada last November and that was that the chair of the creative writing program at the University of British Columbia was fired for, essentially, for breach of contract. Involved in his termination were a number of allegations of, in general, mistreating students, but that included allegations of sexual harassment and assault. Though there were no criminal charges, but it was found that his behavior had been inappropriate enough for him to be fired. And again, [laughter] this is actually also another moment of, "I believe women. I don't want to get into the details of this." What I want to think about is what happened shortly after when a considerable number of Canadian authors teamed together to sign a letter calling for UBC to be held accountable and for greater transparency. The letter and the sort of social media campaign that followed has been sort of circulated under the name UBC Accountable. And essentially it stands in for a group of very powerful figures in the literary community in Canada who used their combined cultural capital and fame and media power to put their voices behind a man already in a position of power and publicly undermine and cast doubt on the voices of women. Two of the three authors who I wrote my dissertation about signed that letter. One ended up retracting her signature. The other did not–the other has a doubled down very decisively. A lot of really major Canadian feminist figures signed that letter. Margaret Atwood was a huge voice behind that letter and, I'm not gonna lie, when I saw whose names were on that list, I went back and started thinking about their work differently.
Authors who I had esteemed, whose work I had taught, who I considered to be really important public intellectuals, my opinion of them changed and my opinion of their work changed as a result. And the thing I found myself particularly paying attention to was not, you know, are these women– because it was the women who I felt betrayed by–not are these women writing books that have women in them, but rather what are they saying about other women in those books? And I found myself, you know, as I thought back over, for example, the body of Margaret Atwood's work and thought, how does she represent other women? It's like, God, her novels are just full of women who hate other women. You know, we can look at Joss Whedon's work and say some really similar things, right? We can say, how are women are punished for different kinds of behavior? How is Buffy punished for having sex? How are lesbians murdered for the sake of furthering a narrative? You know, sometimes finding out something you don't like about a creator you've really esteemed encourages you to go back and cast maybe a slightly more critical eye on the work itself and really think about maybe things that are going on there that you didn't notice the first time around. You might lose something that you loved, but probably that thing wasn't very good to begin with, and probably there's a lot of other things out there that deserve your love, but when push comes to shove, I would say, you know... I'm really struggling with it. So here, let me finish that first thought I was going to say: When push comes to shove, it's the work that matters, but I'm not actually convinced that I believe that either because when we support artists, you know, we put money into their pockets and when we support some artists over others, it means that other people aren't getting a chance. But the lesson for me over the past year is it's always an opportunity to go back and re-evaluate the work and think about it.
There's always these opportunities to learn, to become a better reader, to become a sharper thinker, to continue to push against the things that you love and if, when it comes down to it, you're always gonna love that thing because fuck I'm always gonna love Buffy–that is always going to be an incredibly important show to me–but knowing what we know about Whedon, I think, at least gives us space to continue to think critically about it as well. So there you go. There's some really messy and half formed thoughts for you. This is probably a conversation that we're gonna have to come back to a few times, but there you go. For all of you who heard the news about Whedon and were distraught, just go re-watch all of Buffy. See what you think about it. While you're at it, listen to the really fantastic podcast Buffering The Vampire Slayer because that is definitely a created by two badass humans. [Music: "Mesh Shirt" by Mom Jeans]
Hannah (Host): All right, it is time to meet Adèle. Adèle Barclay is a poet and a witch and a doctor of literature. Her debut poetry collection, If I were in a Cage I'd Reach out for You, was nominated for the 2015 Robert Kroetsch Award for Innovative Poetry and won the 2017 Dorothy Livesay Poetry Prize. She also won the 2016 Lit Pop Award for Poetry and the 2016 Walrus Reader's Choice award for Poetry and has been nominated for a Pushcart Prize. Seriously, she's really good at poetry. She's also the interviews editor at the Rusty Tuque, the 2017 critic-in-residence for Canadian Women in the Literary Arts, or CWILA, and one time she wrote a tweet about being quote, "A 30 year old femme who just pinned a patch of a witch riding a ram under a crescent moon to the back of a pair of sultry, short-eralls," end quote. Don't lie, you totally want to hang out with her now, don't you? So let's do that. [Music: “Pure Desire” by SHEER MAG]
Adèle (Guest): [conversation fades in] ...to warm up myself so that I respond well to questions, to warm up, but I am very chatty and conversational, but just when put on the spot, I'm just like, "I don't know, my name is."
Hannah (Host): [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): I was talking to a colleague today and they were like, "Tell me about your research," and I was like, "I don't know what that is." I was just like, "I just came here to ask you how many print copies I get, so this is very jarring that you would ask me a question about myself. How dare you?" [laughter] [background conversation] We can talk about astrology. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): Yeah, let's start off by talking about astrology. I want to do that really badly.
Adèle (Guest): [laughter] My, like, witchy persona–it's really my brand at this point because that's what sells the poetry books. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): [laughter] This is going to be like a through line of this podcast, but can we talk about the sort of queer resurgence of astrology and tarot, like what's going on with the, like, reclaiming of witchcraft within queer communities?
Adèle (Guest): Yes. I think that's a really fascinating topic. I mean, I think it's something that has just always been around, so I don't know if it's just, you know, getting like deeper into the queerness and into the culture or, I think, you know, in speaking to how queerness is really, really growing? And I don't want to say being, I don't want to say it's being mainstreamed or like co-opted, but I think people are getting, you know, access to queer culture because of the Internet at an earlier age, and so I think there is maybe this blooming of it, because, you know, being gay isn't illegal anymore. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): [laughter] I mean–
Adèle (Guest): If queer culture is, like, having a renaissance because it's sort of like, really, "Oh we can talk about it!"
Hannah (Host): If I'd had Autostraddle when I was a teenage girl, like I can barely imagine.
Adèle (Guest): Like, game changer, right? Um, so I think that is definitely part of it, but I do think like currently and historically people are drawn to it because it is human created knowledge that acknowledges that it's human created knowledge, right? So, like psychology is human created but we pretend that it is objective and, sort of, queers know that like normative, objective knowledge can be very harmful, and so there's something about like, you know, astrology that is very empowering because you know, like it is made up, sky magic
Hannah (Host): [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): and it doesn't pretend not to be?
Hannah (Host): I got in a... not an argument, but like a very, very small sort of back-and-forth with a colleague of mine who–I was talking to another colleague about astrology, and this first colleague cut us off and said that like astrology was made up and that was a boring conversation, and then changed the subject to his ketogenic diet. [laughter] I was like, "Why are we allowed to talk about your pseudoscience and not mine?" [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): [laughter] Right! Exactly. Yeah. And that's sort of like, listen, like that's your kink and it's not mine and I'm going to respect it, even though I'm not into that. Like, don't yuck my yum.
Hannah (Host): [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): Like, you know, either like everything is normal or everything is weird, you know, like you can't make those exceptions and I think it's also like a very empowering language because it encourages empathy. It also dwells in paradox. So you're constantly like, "I'm social, but sometimes I feel like retreating." Like it kind of gives you this really like complex, emotional language to think about how you relate to yourself and other people. So like anything that encourages empathy is amazing. And also in terms of like gender, like it is great because you're not like that person is a boy or a girl, that person is a Taurus. Like it gives you this new language for identification that isn't steeped in all this shit that people are trying to like re-work or get away from. And so it can be a really powerful way to relate to each other and, again, to accommodate for those complexities where you're like, I'm outgoing but shy sometimes, or like, you know, it just gives you that like complexity. And also just like really beautiful, lush archetypes to play with. You know, people are into Myers Briggs, that's like boring as fuck to me, you know. Whereas this, I'm like–
Hannah (Host): I like Myers Briggs too. [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): Which, like, I have a bad history with that because a prof I worked with, who kind of foisted it on us, but there's something about it, right? Like it's really beautiful. It has this history and then you get to play with–you're like, "I am a moon child who lives under the sea. [laughter] Instead of being like, oh, I'm like an extrovert who likes to feel things like...
Hannah (Host): Well, it's also much more fluid, right? Myers Briggs is like, "You are these four things" and there you go. There's you, locked down. Whereas astrology is also about the way that like, okay, here's who you are and who you are is a complex set of relationships between time and space. Where were you and what moment was it when you were born? And then what is unfolding in your life is a triangulation of the time and space of when you were born and the time and space of now.
Adèle (Guest): It's dynamic. It's fluid. So it's like it acknowledges those changes and like we were talking about earlier, sometimes you arrive at goals, then it just opens up new questions, and astrology is very much like that. So it's sort of like, these things are moving and are lighting up this part of your chart and then this part of your feelings and in this part of your reputation and this part of how you love, and that that's always in flux and you're always negotiating that is, um, yeah, very comforting. Like, acknowledging that fluidity instead of this rigid binaristic thinking of like, this or that, that matrix. Whereas this is sort of like, you're this, but it's actually going to shift because of the planet, time and space and that triangulation.
Hannah (Host): So you're a Cancer.
Adèle (Guest): I am a Cancer.
Hannah (Host): What does it mean to you to be a Cancer?
Adèle (Guest): Um, okay. So I am a Cancer with Libra rising and Scorpio moon, which is a fun little combination that I like to describe as, like, a highly sensitive high-sensation seeker who presents as very pleasant and social. And so the Cancer-Scorpio combination is like, "oh, like you were so sensitive," like you might be psychic and you will probably like drive yourself mad, [laughter] but then Libra rising is just this very like–it's the smile on your face as that's happening. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): But yeah, I dunno. It took me awhile to identify with being a Cancer, but now I do. I think for me it speaks to having large capacities for empathy, and a drive for expression and creativity, and then also this sense of taking care of your humans and feeding them and holding space for them. And probably being really bad at boundaries. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): I always think of Cancers as feeding people. [laughter] That's always what I picture when I think about Cancer. It's, like, the person who like wants to have you over and give you food, whether or not that's something that they actually are able to do, it's always there.
Adèle (Guest): Yeah. I identify strongly with that. Where you're like, okay, I can't change these like grander circumstances, but I'm like, "Have you eaten? Have you had enough water? Have you rested? Have you been cuddled?" Like, just bringing it back to those very basic tender needs.
Hannah (Host): Yeah, that's beautiful. I had my first full chart done maybe two years ago with an astrologer in Toronto who does your entire–like the first time you meet with her, she does your entire chart and the session is six to seven hours,
Adèle (Guest): Oh wow, that's so intense.
Hannah (Host): And it's like $200 and it's you and her and your chart just like getting into it. And it was like the most intense therapy session times 100.
Adèle (Guest): I was going to say, that's actually significantly cheaper than six hours of therapy.
Hannah (Host): Right? Yeah.
Adèle (Guest): Okay. And Are you Gemini or Taurus?
Hannah (Host): Gemini. Do you remember my birthday?
Adèle (Guest): I think I saw it on Twitter and I was like this, it seemed cusp-y, so I wanted to check in. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): Yeah, no, I'm, I am a Gemini with Leo rising and my moon in Aries. Yeah. Yeah. So I have a tendency to be a very ambitious, driven, intellectual first, problem-solving oriented, but often easily bored by the tasks that I'm undertaking. And I'm like, always, I always want to solve all of my problems with my mind. I'm pretty sure that you can solve every problem that exists in the world with language and thinking things through, and that like probably you don't need feelings to do any of that work. [laughter] That's probably fine. We can just solve it with our brains. And the Leo rising part is really interesting because it's the, kind of like the Libra rising, it's the part of you that's the face that you put on to other people. But Leo rising is all about knowing what people expect you to be like and giving them the show that they want, but when you're a Leo rising and not an actual Leo, when you get a Leo reception from people, that is people being like, "oh my God, you're so larger than life," you end up feeling really like, "oh, nobody actually knows me because they all think I'm this thing." They all think I'm this lioness, but I'm actually not. It's just the Leo rising.
Adèle (Guest): That kind of–not actually fucked up, but that seemingly fucked up disconnect where you're like, "okay, here's the Leo show," but it's maybe not as internally felt, or the reward isn't actually what you're after.
Hannah (Host): Yeah.
Adèle (Guest): So, but I mean it makes you really photogenic.
Hannah (Host): [laughter] Very good at selfies. That's my Leo rising for sure. It's the selfies.
Adèle (Guest): Sort of like, it has some payoffs, like externally if not internally, but that's like, yeah, that's air and fire, so... [laughter]
Hannah (Host): So you said that astrology is part of, or that witchcraft in general, is part of your brand as a poet. So do you think there is a connection between poetry and witchcraft?
Adèle (Guest): I think so. I was joking earlier and being very cynical.
Hannah (Host): I mean, yes, I mean, like I've never heard anybody say, "That's my brand" and not be being ironic. I just assumed. [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): I was just like, "Oh fuck." No, but I do worry about these things and that line of like, yeah, expression and commodification, but yes. Okay. So, I honestly, because yeah, poetry exists outside of the market, which is actually like a blessing in so many ways. I truly believe that it is this magical space where you can process and critique and re-imagine the world and actually pull at capitalism and colonialism, because like it doesn't–like it's not... no one publishes his poetry to make money? And everyone kind of looks down on it for that and at the same time you're kind of given this really like playful, irrational, magical sphere. So yeah, I think in how poetry operates, it is for me like this other world, right? And a lot of, I think, witchcraft is about accessing this spiritual world that is distinct from or overlaps with our very material, capitalist, neoliberal society and it helps you kind of endure it a little better. So, you're moving through it, but you're like, okay, like I have my people, I have my coven, or I have my poems, or I have like, you know, these rituals that I've done that kind of give me the armor to connect to people, as well as protect myself from these forces that are maybe a little more perturbing or disturbing. So, I think poetry and witchcraft really connect in that way, and it can be about community, but I think it is about this kind of, like, radical resistance and otherness to this kinda crushing neoliberal society that we live in. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): [laughter] Yeah, I've heard of it. [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): [laughter]. It's just sort of like, I'm going to play in this other world or between these worlds.
Hannah (Host): The liminality of it is really interesting for, I'm thinking about poetry right now. How like, poetry is not outside of capitalism because it's still published by publishers and sold as a commodity, but nobody ever expects a poetry book to sell, really. And so it is this liminal space where it abuts against all of these other systems in a way that lets you sort of play around the margins of them.
Adèle (Guest): Yeah, it still exists within it, but like in this really inefficient way.
Hannah (Host): [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): That it's kind of amazing that people still publish it, even though there's like, "well we don't expect it to do well" and it's so... like it's just a disruptive, kind of, spur? [laughter]
Hannah (Host): I love the word–inefficient is so perfect for witchcraft too. That when I think about what it means to, you know, use tarot instead of a cognitive behavioral therapy or to use kitchen magic instead of drugs, it's like... they are profoundly less efficient modes of healing, [laughter] but like their magic lies in their inefficiency, right? In the sort of the time and the care and the attention and the slowing down and the thinking. Like, what is the healing that you can do when what you're actually prioritizing is being still and taking care, rather than like pumping some drugs in yourself and making yourself keep going.
Adèle (Guest): Mmhmm. Like there's maybe this resistance to a linear timeline as well as the linear logic, because a lot of astrology and a lot of tarot has this circular quality to it. It's sort of, you know, like these journeys that you keep going over or the planets that go into retrograde, they move forward, they go back and there's this, like, point A to point B is no longer a thing, and what does it mean to like take that time to step away from time.
Hannah (Host): I found out during that huge a chart reading that I had done that half of my planets are retrograde, which was a real moment of like, "That explains it." [laughter] That explains... life. It's, I think for–and this comes back to the "Why do queers like magic so much"–it's like, when all of the systems and scripts and teleologies that you've been told are supposed to work don't work for you, that makes you feel like you're broken, rather than like the systems are broken, and really coming to terms with, like, actually it is those systems that are fucked up and that you can like find space to thrive within these other systems that aren't attached to linearity or progress or even, like, neoliberal notions of wellness. Like, the fact that there's space for madness within magic, I think, it is also profoundly healing.
Adèle (Guest): And sort of seeing a lot of things that could get construed as negative suddenly being like no, like the sensitivity is actually a superpower or is insightful, and it's not that like it's like this complete reversal, but you can like kind of start to see the strengths in the things that maybe made you like, not capitalism's like... home girl. [laughter] You know?
Hannah (Host): [laughter] Can we get some t-shirts made that say "capitalism's home girl–Not" [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): [laughter] Not capitalism's home girl. Right? Whereas suddenly there's sort of like, that paradigm shift, and, again, if human knowledge is all human created, just that empowerment that comes with it. Like, oh, that's how you see the world. Turns out, I don't have to do that. I mean no, I probably do, so that I can participate in some ways to feed and clothe myself, maybe, but that there is more negotiation or, yeah, like that you can start to re-draft the narratives that we've been bequeath. Right? So that's so much of queerness, is just like we were given these scripts that are useless to us. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): Like how to behave on a date, [laughter].
Hannah (Host): Ugh, no.
Adèle (Guest): You know, and you're just sort of like, "Oh, but like what if I don't want to do that?" Or like what happens... Yeah, and it just allows you to re-draft those scripts a little, or it gives you, you know, there are there elders that like, yeah, that have done those things and you can learn from them and model from and like agree with or disagree with.
Hannah (Host): I mean, that is, to go back to the sort of queerness becoming, I don't know, a thing that is accessible. That is, there are, you know, an internet presence for a whole sort of volume of material out there. That is another thing that it gives us is an increasing number of models of the way that people live their lives that aren't the like one or two versions that we were told are the way that you can live your life and the more of those–like every time I see one of those, every time I see some like somebody who's living their life in a way I didn't know it was an option, it's a little drop in the bucket of like, "oh actually, like, the world is so much richer and better than I was told it was going to be."
Adèle (Guest): Yeah, and just finding like ways to relate to each other that actually work for, like, who we are.
Hannah (Host): [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): You know, I'm sorry, that sounds so, so, so vague, but that–
Hannah (Host): I mean, it goes back to the astrology, right? Like what would it look like if we tried really hard to actually relate with each other through rich and complex understandings of who that person is rather than these, like, really broken and reductive scripts of gender and race and sexuality that's like, "Oh, you're this kind of person, so you're like this."
Adèle (Guest): And just, yeah, all the shorthands that come along with that and yeah, and then also that don't account for that, like, dynamic quality or that like, you know, I think we've all had those experiences with ourselves or with friends where you're like, "Oh, I thought you were that type of person and now you're doing that." And we're just like, "Wow, isn't that like radical or topsy turvy?" And it's like, no, like people are just figuring it out and like I think, how surprising would it be to just live under such a small banner for the entirety of your life? Like I don't–you know, even I think people like, yeah, maybe who do relate to the scripts we've been bequeathed are far more complex and dynamic than that, and even just allowing for that, so being like, yes, maybe like you've chosen these things that are extensively normative, but like you have a lot more strangeness and power and dynamic qualities to you than we now afford you, you know, because yeah, it's like–
Hannah (Host): Honestly at this point I'm surprised when my friends are straight. [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): [laughter]
Hannah (Host): It's just very like… Okay. Like, I don't even know if I have language yet to express what I mean but like, "But you're so much richer and more interesting than heterosexuality." [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): Like, people are just people and it's just like, you know, what are your ever-changing, weird desires and qualities, you know? And you should be defined beyond the dude that you're married to, even if that is an awesome human. You know what I mean? Like there's something–it's just so reductive. Like, yeah, even my friends who are straight, I'm just like, "You are way more weird than people probably think you are because of that," you know, like, and I'm like, no, like I see you and your idiosyncrasies, or even if you lack those idiosyncrasies, like that's weird. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): You know? I'm like, yeah, no, this is the thing I said to my friend, I'm like "Either everything is weird or everything is normal." So sort of following the more seemingly norm-y scripts, I like treating those as peculiar kinks?
Hannah (Host): [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): Not as a shaming device. Not at all.
Hannah (Host): Kink isn't shameful.
Adèle (Guest): Oh no, no, I say this like as like a kinky person. Like, to sort of be like sort of like, oh, like that's the cute, weird thing you're into, and like I'm not into it but I'm into this other cute, weird thing that you are not into. Just sort of putting it on the same level? Sort of, you know, sort of like, like you want to get married–like, I think that's weird, but I respect you in, like, that's what's in your heart and that's your weird little desire, just as I would like you to respect my weird little desires, and I think they're kind of like, yeah, on the same level and not like not this weird hierarchy of like, that is more adult or that is more respectable. I'm just like no, like you have the self-knowledge to know that you want to engage in that ritual and I have the self-knowledge that I want to engage in this other ritual, and it's beautiful that we get to choose that for ourselves.
Hannah (Host): How come mine don't come with a stand mixer?
Adèle (Guest): But like please give me money and gifts. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): [laughter] I would really make good use of a stand mixer, I think. So...
Adèle (Guest): I'm like if y'all want to send some stuff, some resources, my way to celebrate my sexuality and life choices, that would be great. And I will do the same for you. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): And like, I will applaud you because that's what you want, but not because that is what this like larger society wants you to do.
Hannah (Host): Yeah, absolutely. I am so filled with joy when my friends get married because it fills them with joy and I want my friends to be living joyful lives, but my friends who don't want to get married, I don't want them to because that wouldn't fill them with joy and I want my friends to live joyful lives. [laughter] Like I just want everybody to do the thing that gives them bliss.
Adèle (Guest): Yeah, and I think if we could build in more celebrations, right? For the things that people are doing because yeah, like I don't know, like I went on a book tour this fall and my first book came out and I kinda was like, guys like this is my wedding. Like, I don't really plan on doing this other party but I'm doing this party.
Hannah (Host): Was that a good party?
Adèle (Guest): Yeah. So my Vancouver book launch was a good party and yeah, I was like, I was joking, "It's my wedding." And it was. I had a cake and a DJ [laughter]
Hannah (Host): And I assume a great dress?
Adèle (Guest): Yes, and yeah, I thrifted a great dress. I looked like sort of like 90s, witch flower queen and wore a choker and then had carrot cake, which is my favorite kind of cake, and a fucking DJ and Vancouver danced on a Tuesday night. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): [laughter]
Adèle (Guest): I was like, "This is my wedding," you know, just because I was just like, this is my public ritual that I want to celebrate with my friends. I'm probably not going to do that another thing because that doesn't appeal to me. So, like, show up. And they did, no, and people did, but it was just sort of like, that was my thing. [laughter]
Hannah (Host): And Vancouver dance on a Tuesday night will be a really good title for a poem.
Adèle (Guest): And yeah, that one's in the works. [Music: “Pure Desire” by SHEER MAG]
Hannah (Host): To hear more from Adèle, you can check her out on Twitter at @adelevbarclay. That's A D E L E V B A R C L A Y, or on the regular internet at adelebarklay.com. As per usual, you can find all the episodes and the weekly reading list on secretfeministagenda.com. You can follow me on Twitter @hkpmcgregor and tweet about the podcast using the hashtag #secretfeministagenda, and please do keep those ratings and reviews coming. It makes a huge difference in helping other people find the podcast and spreading this politically incendiary material. The podcast theme song is "Mesh Shirt" by Mom Jeans off their album, Chub Rub. You can download the entire album on freemusicarchive.org, or follow them on Facebook. Adèle's theme song was “Pure Desire” by SHEER MAG. You can buy that track on Bandcamp and I've also, of course, linked to it from the show notes. That's it for this week, my darlings. This has been Secret Feminist Agenda. Pass it on. [Music: "Mesh Shirt" by Mom Jeans]